Good Question...


On...was Jesus a failure as a Messiah?

From gmiller   Sat Oct 28 11:55:59 1995
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 19:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
 

feedback=Gmiller,

I have one question for ye....

How can you belive that this jew was the one to set free the jews when in fact he failed? this jesus fellow failed in his mission. He did not free the jews and the jews have been more opressed over the last 2000 years.

[a couple of observations here:

[1. the phrase "to set free the jews" is a bit problematic above...the hope for the Messiah entailed a VERY WIDE range of expectations on the part of OT and 1st Century Jewry...The Jewish scholar Geza Vermes, for example, documents carefully in his book "Jesus the Jew" (pp130-140) the rather detailed expectations of the time..."freedom" was much broader than just the nationalistic concept that you seem to be alluding to (assuming i have understood your comments)

[2. His TOP PRIORITY was 'the forgiveness of sins'--Luke 1:77 and deliverance/salvation of His people --Luke 1:72-75...even though a NATIONAL deliverance IS a DEFINITE part of His commitment--Luke 1:71

[3. Israel EXPECTED the coming of the Messiah to be different in character, DEPENDING ON THE MORAL STATE of ISrael--for example:

[Rabbi Joshua ben Levi is reported to have reconciled the apparent contradition between Daniel 7:13 ('coming with clouds') and Zechariah 9:9 ('humble and mounted on an ass') by claiming that the glorious or lowly manifestation of the Messiah would depend on the virtue of sinfulness of Israel in the last days...bSanh.98a.]

[4. The response of Israel to the messianic events of the time of Jesus DID MAKE A HUGE difference in how 'soon' the Kingdom would be restored to Israel...the coming and REJECTION of Elijah (in the person of John the Baptist--Mat 17:10--

The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?" 11 Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." )

formed the pattern that the Jewish oligarchy would use in rejecting their king...see Luke 19:41ff:

[41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace -- but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."

[In the above passage, Jesus explains that 'peace' COULD HAVE BEEN theirs--but now judgement will fall instead...

[He will indeed come again...and will YET save 'all Israel'!..but only after they 'turn to him with all their hearts'...

The person sent to free the jews has yet to come. what the christans worship is a failure.

Im not saying these things to be rude/crude or a pain, but the fact is he failed.

[I know you mean no rudeness or crudeness in your remarks--and i appreciate your position and concern over the state of affairs of Israel...

[But, i must differ with you on the issue of 'failure'...if the intent was to offer 'freedom' to Isreal (but not give it to an unworthy nation), and then set about offering personal redemption to those outside the nation (thru the young Jewish church) until Israel responded...then i consider that entirely in line with what the OT predicted of the Son of David...you simply have to look at the broadest cut of the data to see how it all fits...

actually, i also realize that the BEST argument in this area is the widespread acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah by 1st century Jews...

the records in Acts (and subsequent Church Father estimates of church growth sizes), indicates that a very LARGE number of Jews accepted Jews as the Messiah--in spite of His lack of resistance to the Roman occupation...what this means is that at least a large group of Jewry of the time DID understand the messianic hope of their OT as being not exclusively Nationalistic...

it is worthy to note, that with the exception of Luke/Acts, EVERY book of the NT was written by a baptized Jew in the first century...

What i am saying is that the acceptance of Jesus by large numbers of Jews (including a large number of Priests) does count as evidences that His claims WERE accepted as accurate by the people closest to the times and environment...

[thanks again for your comments and for visiting the Tank...

[warmly, glenn miller



The Christian Thinktank (www.Christian-thinktank.com)